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« Proving the past | Main | British media and anti-semitism »

Tuesday, January 25 2005

Cat power

BulldozerpaHey, are those Caterpillar bulldozers the Palestinian Authority is using to destroy illegal buildings in Gaza?

Wonder what the 'Boycott Caterpillar' folks -- in the US and the Arab world -- have to say about this...

 

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Hey, are those Caterpillar bulldozers the Palestinian Authority is using to destroy buildings in Gaza? [Read More]



 

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Supporters of the Palestinians usually froth at the mouth when Israel demolishes illegal sructures. So what now?

No, Jack, supporters of the Palestinians usually object when HOMES are demolished under the most ludicrous precepts, like the catch all "military and security needs". All that is being demolished here are security kiosks, shops and other ramshackle structures.

There is a difference. Even if homes are being used in attacks, this is hardly justification to make families homeless.

I'm not certain what a "security kiosk" is, but Abbas is not razing mere "ramshackle structures."

According to Reuters:
Abbas... ordered the demolitions after touring the area and finding much rogue construction on public land.

Orders to remove such buildings had been ignored in the last years of Yasser Arafat in which militants, many linked to lawless elements of security services, took over the streets.

Hundreds of Palestinian policemen were deployed to protect the Palestinian Authority bulldozers as they started razing private buildings erected on public property in Gaza City.

To defuse possible public protests, the bulldozers zeroed in initially on buildings put up by security men, including a string of cafeterias and restaurants along the Mediterranean seaboard.

Municipal police official Musa Alian said hundreds of buildings erected without permits by militants, security men and ordinary civilians would be felled in coming days, adding that their owners had all received advance warnings.

"Our Land Authority warned violators once, twice and three times, but the state of chaos that had spread in the community (before Abbas's election on January 9) hindered the implementation of the law," he told reporters at one demolition site.

"We are now beginning a new era in which law must be respected and all government lands returned."

Alian said some demolition orders could be rescinded in designated "humanitarian and social" cases where some ordinary people built houses on public land because they could not afford sites on privately owned land.

Some people demanded compensation for their investments.

"With all my respect to President Mahmoud Abbas and the law, I thank them for demolishing my place, but I have informed them that I invested $60,000 in my restaurant and I want to be compensated," Jihad Helles, who also serves as a security officer, said as bulldozers crumpled his premises.
http://www.reuters.co.uk/newsArticle.jhtml?type=worldNews&storyID=660253
Tue Jan 25, 2005 10:00 AM GMT
© Reuters 2005. All Rights Reserved.

Either, this is a sincere attempt by Abbas to get a grip on corruption, which is rampant in Gaza.

Or, it is a factional thing, with Abbas' supporters razing buildings owned by a different faction - politics as usual in the corrupt governments sadly typical of the Arab world.

The interesting question from the perspective of this blog is why is the reporting on this so inadequate? Why aren't we being told which "security men" and what variety of "militants" erected these buildings? What is the impact of the bulldozing on Palestinian politics?

One more thought.

As far as I can tell, only Reuters, Agence France, and the BBC have this story. All other reports are echoes of these two.

Does this mean that ony Reuters, Agence France, and the BBC (among western media) have any access within the PA? i.e., only overtly anti-Israel media are even able to get close enough to see large district beein bulldozed in Gaza?

Is it possible for reporters to work freely wthin the PA? Is it possible for them to report on power struggles among Palestinian factions and still have access?

And if not, can we please have some outrage from Human Rights Watch, PEN International, and Amnesty International about restrictions placed on journalists operating within PA controlled territory?

NO REASON TO MAKE PEOPLE HOMELESS? How about the fact that the people living in them make Jews pulseless nonbreathers?

I fully support tearing down their houses, any and all who send their children to kill mine deserve to pay a heavey price-since we have to wait to defend ourselves until someone kills a great number of us before we can even act-they KNOW that if they send their bombers to us they will lose their homes-we know we may lose our lives!

So typical-we simply cannot inconveince murderers. . .they have rights that dead Jews do not!

Thank you PA for legalizing Israeli actions & showing what Israel did in the past was correct.
DK

So Jane YIS, I take it you would fully support the demolition of the houses of Israeli terrorists? Like the ones who planted bombs in Palestinian schools? Are you as vociferous in your support for this?

To Anonymous,

Israelis who plant bombs in schools are subject to Israeli law and are punished appropriately by their government.

Of the 22,000 terorist acts committed by Palestinians in the past four years, how many of them have been punished by the Palestine Authority?
(and please don't say that the PA doesn't have the power or the means because it does conduct trials - usually of brief duration - of suspected collaborators before it executes them).

And another thing Anononymous

In my original post I referred to the whining when Israel demolishes illegal structures. Although that's a completely separate issue from the situation where it destroys property of known terrorist murderers, buildings used for sniping at innocents and buildings used for smuggling or storage of weapons used by groups dedicated to murder and the destruction of the Jewish State - I believe all are justified.

And another thing Anononymous

In my original post I referred to the whining when Israel demolishes illegal structures. Although that's a completely separate issue from the situation where it destroys property of known terrorist murderers, buildings used for sniping at innocents and buildings used for smuggling or storage of weapons used by groups dedicated to murder and the destruction of the Jewish State - I believe all are justified.

>>So Jane YIS, I take it you would fully support the demolition of the houses of Israeli terrorists? Like the ones who planted bombs in Palestinian schools? Are you as vociferous in your support for this?<<

As mentioned, those who PLAN such things ARE CAUGHT BEFORE THEY ACT OR ARE STOPPED BEFORE THEY SUCCEED!

It is apples and oranges, but that is, of course, lost on someone who placed more importance on buildings than on human lives.

So oblivious to the weakness of your position-oh, weep for the buildings than can be rebuilt, remain silent about the lives ended, never to return. Sha, what a shame.

Hello again, "".

You asked Jane: "I take it you would fully support the demolition of the houses of Israeli terrorists?"

Well, the Israeli government has decided to evacuate and demolish hundreds of Jewish homes in the Gaza Strip and the northern West Bank, not of terrorists or criminals. Is this good enough for you?

Dear oh dear, everyone is getting in a pickle here, in response to not answering my question, which was if house demolitions are "good" enough for Palestinians, then why not for Jewish terrorists? Was Baruch Goldstein's home demolished? Were the homes of the potential school bombers demolished?

Terrorism is terrorism, so does the Israeli government not want to deter radicals like Goldstein? Yes, terrorist murders by radical Jewish settlers are thankfully rare, but their victims are no less dead than Israeli victims.

And Amit, nice to meet again, but you are way off here, friend. The settlements in the West Bank and Gaza are widely regarded as illegal among the international community and an obstacle to peace. I believe that Rabin offered nearly all of these areas to Arafat, who refused them. Now Sharon's disengagement plan advocates vacating four north West Bank settlements and all in Gaza. BUT, there is nothing about demolishing these homes, Amit, in fact quite the reverse. Some extremists do not want Palestinians living in "their" homes and THEY are advocating the demolition of them. In fact one of the main points of the disengagement plan is that the settlements remain intact for use by Palestinians "if accepted by an appropriate agency."

Not that this has anything to do with some correspondents not commenting on my original question, yet accusing me rather ridiculously of caring more for buildings than lives. Can anyone tell me where I wrote this?

>>Not that this has anything to do with some correspondents not commenting on my original question, yet accusing me rather ridiculously of caring more for buildings than lives. Can anyone tell me where I wrote this?<<

Right here-look it up, wait,let me here you go.

you wrote;

>>There is a difference. Even if homes are being used in attacks, this is hardly justification to make families homeless<<

Poor homeless terrorists and their families-those houses are so precious. . .

here is the answer to you question-If Jews were told that the policy would be any acts of terror would result in the demolition of their homes-by the Israeli government, and they killed people anyway, they deserve to be punished.

You are so off base on this. You seem stung that I would post about you and your supreme love of houses. . .look at you posts and tell me where you have expressed any sympathy for those of us who wait for the murderers to show up?

I will wait. . .if you do not believe that the destroyed houses of those who kill Jews or hide and aid those that kill Jews are more important than the Jews they kill-if this punishment is "too harsh" then say so, otherwise, you are a moral void.

I will say it again-IF TOLD THEY WOULD LOSE THEIR HOMES IF THEY BLEW SOMETHING UP, IN ADDITION TO THE JAIL TIME THEY WOULD SERVE, EVEN IF THE PLAN WAS THWARTED BEFORE A SINGLE LIFE WAS LOST, IF THAT WAS THE LAW THEN JEWS WHO DID THIS SHOULD BE SUBJECTED TO THAT LAW!!!!!!!

Is that an answer to your question? Can you hear me now?

Dear Anononymous
you are missing the point. why are you applying a double standart towards the jews? why?
Israli terrorists who blow up palestinians are put into jail for long years. we do not demolish their homes because they are already punished with life sentences in jail. however the PA doesn not punish terrorist, and sometimes even encourges them. if the palestinians would put their terrorist in jail, israel would not demolish their houses. Israel should not stand in the side while watching its citizens get killed. Israel, like any other counrty in the world is required to protect its citizens, and if the PA does not stop terrorists, than israel does what it can to stop it themselves by demolishing houses. right of life is much greater than property damages.
i hope i answered your question

I will say it again-IF TOLD THEY WOULD LOSE THEIR HOMES IF THEY BLEW SOMETHING UP, IN ADDITION TO THE JAIL TIME THEY WOULD SERVE, EVEN IF THE PLAN WAS THWARTED BEFORE A SINGLE LIFE WAS LOST, IF THAT WAS THE LAW THEN palestinians WHO DID THIS SHOULD BE SUBJECTED TO THAT LAW!!!!!!!

why are you asking this about the jews?
why not about the palestinains?
why are you not balming the PA for lack of punishment to terrorists?
why always israel? why the double standard?
why israel, after putting terrorsits in jail is requiered to demolish thier houses, while palestinians are not required to do anything?
why palestinians are allowed to "stand back" and aprrove suicide bombers, why?

And another thing Anononymous
why are settelments illegal? is it because this lie was repeated enough times so it became the truth? who declared the west bank occupied terretories? who are they occupied from? from palestinians?, as far as i remmember before 67 the wet bank was not part of plaestine, but was part of jordan. so if these terretories are occupied they are occupied fron jordan, and not the palestinians. and since jordan doesn't care about these terretories anymore, meaning jordan aproved this 'occupation', than they are not occupied, and certently they are not plaestinian land. because i don't remember a counrty named 'palestine' i don't remmeber any nation called palestian before 1967. are they just arabs who are used by the PA as pawns in thier political game? it seems that these 'palestinians' were not opressed when jordan occupied the area, or the nation was born in 1967, when the arabs could not drive the jews to the sea? was this their plan for the destruction of israel in a slow process? because it seems like it is working because people like you, keep refering to them as 'palestinians'and west bank as 'occupied terretories'. btw befor the 90's, the west bank was known as disputed terretories, and that's what the really are.

>>why are you asking this about the jews?
why not about the palestinains?
why are you not balming the PA for lack of punishment to terrorists?
why always israel? why the double standard?
why israel, after putting terrorsits in jail is requiered to demolish thier houses, while palestinians are not required to do anything?
why palestinians are allowed to "stand back" and aprrove suicide bombers, why?<<

Relax dude, I was making sure joe troll read my answer to his question. I support the demolition of the houses of bomber's families-it is the only punishment these murderers get, since their "government" supports them in their acts of slaughter and other countries actually pay them a lot of money for their great job raising a human bomb.

The question was asked, if Jews did the same would I support their houses being destroyed, to which I answered yes, I would, as a matter of law. As you point out, the MINUTE population of that is as "militant" as the MAJORITY of palestinians (which is surprising considering the horrific amount of bloodshe this population has inflicted on Jews)are CAUGHT BY THE JEWISH STATE AND PUNISHED.

The troll refuses to acknowledge this fact.

Well, that troll also referred to the Jews doing (or about to do) such things as "terrorists". He didn't apply the T-word to the Palestinians who are doing these things. Did anyone say "double standards"?

Also, it's interesting to note these people are always described as being 'home-less'. In America and in Europe, this title implies that they actually sleep on the street. Needless to say, this is not the case here. Why use it then? Because it sounds bad, ofcourse. In this 'debate' that's the only thing that matters. Truth? Those who hate Israel couldn't give a damn about truth. That's why they always explain that they don't call Palestinians "terrorists" because the T-word is an empty smear-word but the moment the perpetrators (well, would-be perpetrators) see how happy they are to call out "terrorists":) The anonymous troll did it too!

you are right, on all points

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